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24 February 2013 @ 04:18 pm
Once Upon a Time Review - Manhattan  
Right. So I FINALLY have my review of Manhattan done. I find that writing up my thoughts gets harder the longer I wait since my head fills with other people's thoughts - this week I didn't have much choice since I was ill for a few days, but I'm going see if I can some sort of review up on Monday from now on while the New Episode Feeling is still fresh. After all, if I have other meta thoughts or ideas about the episode I can always write another post! Because this is ridiculous having an episode review hanging over my head for a week and making it difficult to do other fun fandomy things when I'm on-line and in the mood.

So...Manhattan. Or as it can otherwise be known: The episode where we find out we are mired in fate and prophecies and Henry's family tree gets a lot more complicated.

You know, there’s not a ton I remember about my father that doesn’t suck, but he used to tell me that there are no coincidences. Everything that happens happens by design, and there’s nothing we can do about it. Forces greater than us conspire to make it happen. -- Neal

What is a fantasy show without a good dollop of prophecy? Up until now we have only had the barest hints of fate having a hand. Even Rumpelstiltskin's ability see the future was, at best, ambiguous. As soon as we found out that he planned the curse and wrote the damn thing it was easy to see how he could know about Emma and how the curse would be broken. But in this episode we learn a bit more. That he knew all along someone else would cast the curse and someone else would break the curse. The secret was figuring out WHO and WHEN. And all the pesty details in between.

Seer: Your wife will bear you a son, but your actions on the battlefield tomorrow will leave him fatherless.
Rum: I'm going to die? No, no, no. You must tell me how I can stop that happening.
Seer: You can't.
Rum: Then I'm done helping you.
Seer: For now. Someday you'll help me again.


How much is seen and how much is free will? Rumpel clearly became a fatalist after he hobbled himself and he passed that fatalism onto his son. But then was Rumpel always destined to become the Dark One? The seer CLEARLY saw he could be and manipulated him into taking that path. He would not have hobbled himself without her prophecy so maybe at point he had two roads ahead of him. One where he dies in battle never knowing he had a son and Milah is one of the many honored widows in town. In this future Bae grows up the son of a hero, a far different fate than to grow up the son of a coward whether the coward is in the picture or not. And there is the second road which he took. Which the seer made sure he took. Did she want the curse cast? Was there some force encouraging her? Or was it more personal? She knew he would take her burden and so he did.

But first he had to lose his son and however much he may have regretted ever since, it doesn't matter to Bae. What matters is that he let go. It seems as though the years of Rumpel trying to find his son again have been balanced on Bae's part by years of anger and resentment hardening into utter rejection. If he had not known Emma and Emma wasn't there to find him, Bae would have kept running. And Rumpelstiltskin KNEW that. He didn't know they had a history but his deal was for her to get Bae to talk to him. With his gift of prophecy we can believe that he already knew that somehow she would succeed.

And I think we can also believe that this is NOT the first time he has gotten close to Bae. How else would he know that Bae has been running for a very long time if Rumpel has not been chasing him? If he has not almost found him before and failed? For that matter how much would Bae know about what Rumpel does to those who break deals if he didn't also have some knowledge of what Rumpel has been up to over these past few centuries? But Rumpel was fated to never succeed until he made the curse and until the boy appeared to lead him. That must have been very frustrating! No matter how many times Rumpel tried something else - a bean, ruby slippers, a portal, Bae slipped away again or the item itself slipped away before he could use it.

Before I go into my notes about the episode, I want to take moment and praise the acting in this episode. All three of our main characters in the confrontations - Emma, Neal, and Rumpel - were completely spot on. Even Henry, since he was given more to work with than usual, did an excellent job. Emma in particular went from complete shock which allowed her vulnerability and younger self to come out then to anger as she took control of herself and finally had all her walls up again with Neal at the end. And of course I completely adored everything Robert Carlyle did in the episode, both in the flashbacks and in the confrontations with both Emma and Neal. He was excellent right down to the little nod and look of shocked understanding when he figured out that Henry was his grandson. It was just a little motion and a step back but it spoke volumes.

Notes:

• I know a lot of people still hate Milah or even hate her more but I actually understand her more than I did and I have more sympathy for her. She lives in a place where your reputation is everything and to have someone deliberately destroy that reputation knowing that they would then be shunned and relegated to extreme poverty, well, it makes sense that she was angry and that the anger eventually destroyed everything good in their marriage. Just as his new reputation for being a coward destroyed any chance of them having financial stability.

• Unfortunately a scene in this episode from Rumpel's childhood was cut which showed why the seer's words hit him so hard and why he was basically driven to hobble himself. He is not just a coward (in fact I don't think he was coward until he took people's taunts into himself and spent so many years being despised as a coward). The cut scene shows Rumpel watch his father get murdered in front of him while the father was trying to sneak out of town ahead of his debtors. I have no idea why they cut this since it is PIVOTAL in understanding why Rumpel could not risk anything which would separate him from Baelfire and why he would never consider leaving town. So many things make sense now!

• As I mentioned in the body of my review, I do think we are going to find out that there were a lot more attempts to find Bae and that Bae hasn't always been in our world. If he has been running for a long time and Rumpel knows it I don't doubt he did some realm jumping. This is a feeling I got as I watched the episode.

• Belle still being in the hospital and getting variously drugged and knocked out each week had been damn well be a plot point. Even then it's barely acceptable. Why the hell is she not being guarded at least? What if Regina decided to kill her? Does anyone think he was kidding about flattening the place if she was harmed?

• I loved Henry acting as lookout when Gold decided to break in. Really Emma? After hundreds of years and a giant curse you thought he would shrug and give up? His answer to her about getting arrested made me laugh. He'll have to testify and against me and then we'll be reunited. Hee.

• And when he got angry with Emma? Oh...yes. I liked that. I have a bit of a thing for Robert Carlyle in a crazed, murderous rage. (Which is good, considering his career. *g*) I also loved that Emma wasn't backing down. She was ready to get into it with him and I don't know who would have won. I wasn't sure how I felt about him accepting her initial lie but I loved that he figured it out very quick.

• Grandpa Rumpel. I've been waiting for that and we got some excellent scenes between the two of them this episode. Yeah, it was followed by a flashback showing us a vow to kill the boy who led him to his son. But I'm not ever going to buy that he would kill his grandson. Family is WAY TOO important to Rumpel. I could possibly believe him being tempted in a crisis situation.

• The Rumpel who made the vow is a very different man than the one we have in the present. He has gone down many paths and has learned much about the 'gift' he took. The future is like a puzzle with missing pieces - difficult to read and never, never what you think.

• Charming is rather dim sometimes but I did appreciate his little conversation with Snow. It brought some much needed humor to the episode. And I really want to see them have Thanksgiving together! They are not in their land yet - no reason not have turkey and stuffing and wine and sniping.

• It was rather amazing how different Robert Carlyle looked when he was young and happy Rumpel. To see him smiling and striding into the house, he was almost a completely new person. And I suppose in a way this was a completely new version of Rumpel. We have never seen him happy before.

• Also, his home was nicely furnished and comfortable. Let's contrast this to the home in The Crocodile and then to the home in Desperate Souls. Every year they got poorer and their lives became smaller and meaner. While Milah was still around they could hold onto a few comforts (with whatever money she brought in), but once she was gone, they spiraled down to point where they had NOTHING LEFT. This helps me understand Rumpel's desperation better. Once he listened to that seer there was no way out. He was going to become the Dark One.

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( 12 comments — Leave a comment )
aleysiasnape: dh5aleysiasnape on February 24th, 2013 10:16 pm (UTC)
I love your review! I noticed the surprised look on Rumpel's face too when he found out Henry was his grandson. I just hope he doesn't kill Henry off. And I hope Rumplestiltskin doesn't die in the next episode.

I'm thinking of rewatching Manhattan again. Since they're showing the Oscars. I rather watch Once Upon A Time then sit and listen to speeches all night.
Chloris: Once Upon Rumpel snapchloris on February 25th, 2013 04:07 pm (UTC)
Thanks! He is not going to but I get the feeling that events are going to conspire to make the decision more difficult. And Rumpel is not going to die either! No worries here. There is no way they are writing out Robert Carlyle this early in the game.

We watched PoI last night (which was AWESOME) but I've seen Manhattan three times now and I keep seeing new subtleties in the acting in the confrontations.
daybreak777: pocket squares!daybreak777 on February 24th, 2013 10:23 pm (UTC)
Sorry these hang over your head! Fandom should be fun. I sure hope you are feeling better.

One where he dies in battle never knowing he had a son and Milah is one of the many honored widows in town. In this future Bae grows up the son of a hero, a far different fate than to grow up the son of a coward whether the coward is in the picture or not.
Also, one where Bae is recruited himself and possibly dead. Which kind of affects Emma and Henry now, doesn't it? Where would this narrative be without Henry? Interesting thought about what if Rumpel hadn't hobbled himself.

Was there some force encouraging her? Or was it more personal?
It remains to be seen. But she'll be back sometime so we'll find out!

Even Henry, since he was given more to work with than usual, did an excellent job.
The actor portraying Henry is great! But all the child actors here: Gretel, young Pinnochio, and young Snow have been pretty damn good actors! Kudos to OUAT casting!

Ah, cut scenes! I think it's very important but I still got it. He didn't want to become his father and he didn't want to lose Bae. Fatherhood is so important to him but he misses the point sometimes. It's not just about being physically present or even reputation or just love. It's mostly about putting your child's needs ahead of your own. I can't judge him on the hobbling. I think he realizes his mistake there. But letting Bae go when the boy clearly wanted and needed him so much. That's going to be a hard one to make up for if that's even possible.

We have never seen him happy before.
That is so sad. Was Milah his True Love? I don't know. But it shows how dim and dark life is without love and how bright it can be with it.

Do you think Charming and Snow will go back to Fairytale Land? And leave Emma and Henry? I don't know if that will quite work out. What do you think?


Edited at 2013-02-24 10:23 pm (UTC)
Chloris: Once Upon Emma you can't make mechloris on February 25th, 2013 04:24 pm (UTC)
Eh, this is me putting pressure on myself. The way to relieve it is to just write SOMETHING the next day. Then I've reviewed and when I have new thoughts about the episode I can post them whenever.

Which kind of affects Emma and Henry now, doesn't it?

Well...if Rumpel is dead then there is no curse. There is no magical Cora or Regina and probably no Emma either. He has been manipulating the world for centuries after all. Oh, and certainly no Bae and Emma meeting even if they both exist! Bae would be long dead no matter what. :)

And, as for Bae dying in battle, I think that might depend on whether Rumpel's desertion did make any difference or not. And whether Milah was willing to up and leave town with Bae.

The actor portraying Henry is great!

They stick the poor kid with lots of exposition and don't give him enough emotional scenes. He does as well as you can expect when he 'voice of the author' boy but I really love him when he gets a chance to do more.

Ah, cut scenes! I think it's very important but I still got it

But it does explain why he was so resistant to the idea of even moving to a new town. His father tried to escape the consequences of his actions and it got him killed while Rumpel watched. I couldn't really understand that in The Crocodile - why he would stay and not even try - but now I do.

And letting Bae go. Very bad! It doesn't matter that he regretted almost immediately because the damage was done. He is exceedingly lucky that Henry exists since I doubt Bae would be willing to give him more than those three minutes otherwise.

Was Milah his True Love?

I don't think so since she turned on him so quickly. True Love can die but I imagine it takes longer. However, without the Ogre War, they could have had a happy marriage of ordinary love and that would have been good.
daybreak777: note to self - no more dealsdaybreak777 on February 25th, 2013 07:09 pm (UTC)
Silly Ogre War! (Now we need a ep all about Ogres. I want Shrek!)

But then Milah went on to be Hook's True Love. . . I think.
ustas_fish: Rumpel_wheeljust_ustas on February 25th, 2013 06:16 am (UTC)
thank for wonderful review. interesting ideas about rumpel and milah, especially rumpel and bae dynamic. i think, it has sense.

love charming and his thought about thanksgiving. wanna see it! ))))) he really made it easier for us. and deep respect to snow. she has a good heart and took news really well for sake of everyone whom she loves.

actually still not understand milah. if she really loved rumpel in the past even despite his family reputation... (rumpel was outlaw even before war.) why turned off so quickly? so she clear prefered to be honorable widow and find new husband (don't think she'll be welsh herself if rumpel died in the first battle). then she clear abandoned her child from the start. what sort of mother she is?

interesting observation after this episode again - i have impression that rumpel only one person here who never lied, when everyone doing exactly this. he had secrets, yes, but not lied. that tells a lot about this character.

absolutely can't bear what they doing to belle and can't understand it. actually i visited asylum several time and i can say they treat their patients much better. and belle just has shock and some sort of amnesia, she is not ill. and where are her good *friends* now? why they did not move a finger for her? no help, no protection. they even not afraid gold kill them all. or maybe they think it was joke? i just can't understand this. and i can not see where authors would go from here.

have a big question - how the heck august knew who neal is and where to find him?? (and even push him to emma's direction.) as we know, he was wee wooden child and knew nothing about rumpel's son and this new world particularly when he arrived here. so from where those abilities?

love robert carlyle again and again and his acting class! was interesting to see young and smiling rumpel for the change.
do not understand regina and her relationship with cora. hope for her own secret plan there.
and i don't like actor who plays adult bae.(( i'm trying for rumpel's sake only.




Edited at 2013-02-25 07:13 pm (UTC)
Chloris: Once Upon Mr. Gold profilechloris on March 2nd, 2013 03:56 pm (UTC)
Once seems to be more about driving the plot forward this season than giving us character moments but I too would love to see a big, awkward family dinner scene. I think right now half the family members aren't talking to each other, and then there are four magic users (Emma, Rumpel, Regina, and Cora), three of them dangerous and wanting to kill the others. It would be fun! ;)

We still haven't seen why Milah married him in the first place. It's possible her family reputation wasn't good either but she was hoping they could overcome their pasts and make a good life. Rumpelstiltskin shattered that hope with his leg. And then he did it all because of Bae! That could have curdled her love for Bae right from the beginning. I don't particularly like Milah (and don't think she ever really loved Rumpel or she couldn't have turned on him so quickly) but I can understand that she felt trapped and angry.

Rumpel LOVES to play with words but he doesn't lie. The secret is noticing what he doesn't say. That is always where he gets you.

I can't understand what they are doing with Belle's story either. I just hope it means something and will have repercussions later and it's not just that they don't know what do with her while Gold is gone.

Heh. How did he know who Bae was? No idea! BUT, I do think there is someone else involved. Someone who sent him. Someone powerful who was manipulating the situation. Not Gold since he was under the curse but maybe the Blue Fairy or maybe some other player we haven't met yet.
ustas_fish: Rumpel_wheeljust_ustas on March 3rd, 2013 08:22 am (UTC)
august. 1) blue fairy was under curse too. 2) little wooden boy (who knew nothing) was send into another world only by his father (who also knew nothing by the way) and beafore anyone know. so he was just little boy, who was scared and who abandoned emma also. no hero tipe and without any knowledge... and suddenly he is sort of trickster himself. how it possible?
Chloris: Once Upon Mr. Gold profilechloris on March 3rd, 2013 08:42 pm (UTC)
Ah, but was she cursed? I'm not convinced! She is the original power, older than ANYONE, so I'm not sure if she couldn't have protected herself somehow. She seemed cursed but may have been pretending. Because you are right - there is no way August knew about the dagger or Baelfire as a child.
ustas_fish: Rumpel_wheeljust_ustas on March 4th, 2013 05:36 am (UTC)
there another interesting moment too. for me is very strange that baelfire still SO ANGRY. i anderstand he was scared and angry too. but SO ANGRY! to hate his father during all this years, even became adult himself. it was clear his father adored him all his previous life, also it was clear he wanted to go with his son but made terrible mistake because was too scared one moment.

as we know baelfare is not angel himseld. he clear betrayed person he loved. so who'd be forgiving and understanding to another weakness, am i right? but NO. he clear hates his father. he not only hided all this years but seems told everyone about his father's weakness, about dagger. it is very strange for so good hearted boy in the past.

and also baelfire knows definitely too much about developments in FTL after he left. this is very suspicious for me. so i think there someone influence on him (and maybe on august too). someone with power (but not blue fairy). so who is it?






Edited at 2013-03-04 05:43 am (UTC)
~Lirpa~: Once Upon a Time: Rumple: Lovekatje0711 on March 1st, 2013 04:28 am (UTC)
It was interesting to see how Rumpel was crippled. But owwwwwwwwww!!! That must've been hard for him to do. And heck, he's hardly a coward for doing that. I think that in itself takes a lot of courage. And really, he was doing it for his son. That's not so cowardly, either.

But poor Rumpel. He was easily manipulated and people sure took advantage of him!

I agree with your comments about the acting. Everyone did such a fantastic job!

I suppose I can see what you are saying about Milah and her status. But I really am not sure she ever loved Rumpel. At least not the way he loved her.

It is a shame they cut that scene with Rumpel seeing his father murdered! That would help explain why he's the way he is!

What are they doing with Belle??? Seriously!

I don't think Rumpel would ever kill his grandson, either. And I also love that he's Henry's father. Certainly makes for interesting family dynamics!

• The Rumpel who made the vow is a very different man than the one we have in the present. He has gone down many paths and has learned much about the 'gift' he took. The future is like a puzzle with missing pieces - difficult to read and never, never what you think.

Exactly! And who knows what was really meant when the seer said the boy would be Rumpel's downfall.
Chloris: Once Upon Rumpel pre-Dark One sadchloris on March 2nd, 2013 04:10 pm (UTC)
I couldn't watch it! I hid behind my hands as soon as he lifted that hammer. And I agree that he WAS NOT a coward. However, I do think that being told he was one over and over again from everyone around him caused him to internalize the name. By the time he became the Dark One he believed himself a coward. (Though lighting a fire, stealing a magic dagger, and then stabbing the previous Dark One puts the lie to that.)

Yes. Both Rumpel and Regina have been manipulated into their roles. Each of them was drawn down the path and then encouraged to make a choice. We can say that Rumpel didn't need to believe the seer and could have gone into battle as he had planned but the seer knew very well what he would do if she talked to him.

I'm not sure if she ever loved him either but I think she wanted to love him and I think she liked him.
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